基协就《基督日报》事件再发声明邝伟衡：机构有责任澄清疑虑（5月23日消息）

基协就《基督日报》事件再发声明
邝伟衡：机构有责任澄清疑虑
（5月23日消息）

时代论坛 / 2008年5月23日

基督教机构协会于五月廿一日发出声明，就《基督日报》事件再作跟进回应（全文见本文下半部）。该会现届常务委员主席邝伟衡牧师受访时表示，该会对《基督日报》绕过外界各项疑虑，什至推出印刷版的做法表示保留，他认为《基督日报》理应就其登记注册、董事名单、奉献用途、收支账项、背景关系等作公开澄清。该会议决在对方作出清晰交代之前，将参考《基督日报》前顾问们的决定，不接受该报任何访问及有任何合作。

邝伟衡表示，稍后将会向全港教会发信，透过《奉献者约章》再次提醒奉献相关的原则，他强调教会有责任努力奉献支持机构，但同时也有知情的权利；而机构则有责任清楚交代自己的工作和账项，避免外界出现任何疑惑，影响基督教机构整体的公信力。该会现届常务委员会名单包括：邝伟衡牧师（主席）、沈志超总干事、许朝英社长、蔡志森总干事（副主席）、郭朝南牧师、丘日良及黄伟。

该会声明全文：

就《基督日报》事件最新发展之声明

对于《香港经济日报》2007年12月12日报道：「葛福临布道会特刊临急改版　揭编制者《基督日报》擅募捐　疑涉韩异端」，本协会曾发表声明表示关注，并希望《基督日报》尽快公开澄清及回应，唯一直未获具体及令人满意之答覆。

最近，我们得悉多位曾任《基督日报》（香港）或相关机构顾问的教牧及教会领袖，集体辞去顾问的职务，并表示：「日后不会再接受《基督日报》及Crossmap的访问或查询，亦不会向《基督日报》及Crossmap发放资料。」

此外，我们亦得悉由包括具公信力之教牧组成的《基督日报》事件独立调查团发表报告，指出：「没有证据显示《基督日报》在葛福临布道大会特刊的事宜上有欺诈的行为，但却有应该改善的地方；以及没有证据显示《基督日报》在筹款的时候有欺诈的行为，但却有应该改善的地方。鉴于《基督日报》是牟利商业公司，所以建议《基督日报》在呼吁公众奉献时，应该更清楚地表达它的商业机构身份；以及《基督日报》在承办项目时，应该慎重及清晰界分其工作属义务性质或商业服务。」

作为一个联系香港各基督教机构，希望能促进机构之间合作，提高基督教机构之专业水平及见证的协会。我们再次呼吁全港教会、教牧同工及弟兄姊妹在与任何以基督教为名义成立的机构合作或奉献支持之前，应更详细了解其董事会及负责同工之背景；经费来源及与一些有争议组织之间的关系。若在交往过程之中有任何怀疑，或发现被人误导，应尽快要求澄清，在未有满意答覆前，应考虑终止其合作关系，以免其他不知情的教会及弟兄姊妹继续被误导。此外，我们亦期望所有基督教机构皆能提高其透明度及问责性，切莫令基督的名受亏损。

相关资讯：【《基督日报》事件专辑】

（www.christiantimes.org.hk，时代论坛每日快拍，2008.5.23）

舊回應26則

小信從 / 2008-06-02 09:58:48

信徒：都唔知你想講ゼ？

都唔知你想講ゼ？

信徒 / 2008-06-01 12:03:16

致小信徒：誰是耶青朋友？

這裡的發言都是個人發言，是不是耶青朋友誰能夠知道？言語不當的人的確不少，但是是否都是耶青的支持者呢？不也有刻意抹黑耶青的大有人在嗎？

機構協會到底做得是對是錯，這不是以機構協會的背景可以決定的。若質疑耶青這件事情本身是做得錯的，那么難道機構協會可以因為其背景所以免除這個錯誤嗎？用教會背景來推廣自己的個別意見，這個錯誤已經重複了太多次了，只是你還不明白吧！

小信徒 / 2008-05-31 13:27:06

耶靑朋友，說話請尊重機協，他們都是忠心僕人，你的態度只會引起眾怒

same

佚名Anonymous / 2008-05-31 09:40:39

基協多幹事

基督教圍內有自己既稅務局同廉政公署？

非“基協”莫屬！

小信徒 / 2008-05-29 00:05:15

不用關心路人甲，真正需要關心的是張再亨和Susanna Lam

關心你的人 / 2008-05-28 23:24:26

路人甲，雖然你係好熱心，但係你表達既方式實左令人反感

睇見你係好熱心，唔知你參與係le 件事有幾多，唔知你係咪完全岩，但係你表達既方式實左令人反感，不過，我相信你係為教會著想既人。

路人甲 / 2008-05-28 22:55:41

仲要通知埋所有國內有關係嘅教會

仲要通知埋所有國內有關係嘅教會，將香港嘅調查報告文章同国內網站 email佢地知！

等無辜教會提高警覺，米比耶青、“福音时代网站”，“基督时代网站” 欺騙！

各位有智之士，喺 CT留言雖然過癮，但係同班 GH, YDJ假扮嘅讀者討論，雖然可以阻止佢地喺 CT踩場＇但係同佢地討論簡直浪費時間！最重要反而係要剷除異端工作，而家各處都查出真相，係時候正統信仰嘅弟兄姊妹一齊行動！

實行一Q清袋！

路人甲 / 2008-05-28 22:53:40

傳開去，攻佢地啲廣告來源

既然而家真相大白，咁多調查都揭發GH 耶青陰謀！

各位要幫吓啲被人呃上擋嗰啲係GH仲賣廣告嘅人，

email 比佢地有關所有網站同調查，CT站內都有 Link，等被騙廣告者立刻撤廣告！

並且各同道，email 海外所有教會有關呢件陰謀！

另外要通知被GH未經許可、監硬、非法將佢地個招牌放喺 GH嗰教會机構名錄做生招牌嘅教會、機構，立刻要求GH 删除。

再嚟開個 BLOG 將香港 GH同耶青人啲相片上載被人點相！

Hin / 2008-05-28 17:46:33

To a reader: Try this way, it works for me.

Try to go to the special link for GH and then click into the one about 525 and it should be OK, at least I can get in this way.

Hin / 2008-05-28 17:34:58

To a reader: I have the same problem

I have the same problem logging into the page about the 525 meeting. I think it is more a technical problem than a intentional situation.

I am still waiting for the logging problem to be solved by CT. Please be patient, I don't see any reason for them to block the site since someone else can get on it recently.

一讀者 / 2008-05-28 14:45:01

《論壇》請尊重讀者的發言權利

本人在其他文章發言無礙, 但每欲在「新興宗教關注小組聚會分析「耶青」及《基督日報》」一文發言, 就自動被log out. 請時代論壇跟進.

如果禁制部份人說話的話, 論壇跟某些專制政權無異. 百花齊放後就來個秋後算帳?

在留言版口出惡言, 隨意謾罵的人大有人在, 本人從沒出過粗言穢語或不堪入耳的話. 請別隨意再禁制本人的發言.

一文 / 2008-05-28 14:06:14

自重自重

聖經說，快快的聽, 慢慢的說, 慢慢的動怒.

先聽聽GH怎麼說再發炮吧. 不要太急於論斷別人.

而且這樣的言語未免太難聽了. 你平日這樣說話的嗎﹖

"總要在言語行為信心愛心上作信徒的榜樣"

自重自重.

佚名Anonymous / 2008-05-28 00:42:12

核凸真相

好囉！好囉！照妖鏡現晒形囉！

近兩三個禮拜 GH人YDJ人開始嚟 CT踩場，自己又喺GH網站上講人自講，講來講去三幅屁，無法啦，被人洗咗腦嘅人講野咁款，因為根本就無思想！聽上頭指！淨係識執人口水尾，淨係識扭計問： “唔制呀！你又唔調查佢？”

各路英雄發現真相：

GH利用葛福林呃錢！

GH隱瞞牟利身份呃奉獻！

GH人個個講大話！

GH點擊率報假數！

GH未經同意利用正牌教會机構名去宣傳賣廣告！

GH隱瞞經濟來源！

GH隱瞞YDJ身份！

GH好狠毒恐嚇牧者！

GH人成日改名呃人！

GH喺人地個場倒亂！

GH同埋 YDJ 人喺張大衛手下受訓！

GH, YDJ, Crossmap、ChristianToday、Jublieemission、Breathecast、福音時代、基督時代全部係張大衛爪牙！

GH個個夫婦、香港、大陸、韓国炒埋一碟，唔係統一係乜？

GH同YDJ人身份背景個個無人知，淨喺張大衛嘅偉仁大學出身！

GH同YDJ 世界上無一個正統信仰嘅牧師、教會、機構撑佢地！

GH同YDJ 世界上無一個正統信仰嘅牧師、教會、機構奉獻比佢地！

GH咁多個月除咗轉移視線、鬼辯、告人之外，無法解釋身世、手段、錢！

GH幾個熱心又愛主又無辜又乜都唔識又無錢嘅純真年輕人，一個月內反轉豬肚就係屎，變成又狠毒又出律師信告人又有錢出報紙又極有効率又改名又講大話當食生菜又惡毒！

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:24:41

Jay and Chan have listed two very good examples

If GH have done what Jay and Chan have stated in their comments, what kind of working ethic they are using in reporting news or even attacking the IEC, brother Yeungs, Mrs. Tang, Rev. Wang.....

They need to deal with one thing at a time, clear their own problem first before they can try to regain any confidence from the general public. Even the way they attack the 525 meeting is bias and without ground, they are only making statements on their own and confuse the public to lead them to think what they said are facts.

We can see that GH can and will mix fact with fiction (or lie) easily. If they can tell lies in public for so many times, misleading the public in so many ways, why would we trust them at all.

Jay / 2008-05-27 00:51:25

Christian Organisation Association should quote also quote the below in the Report---It shows that GH has consistantly committed fradulent acts. I agree with Chan

根據《基督日報》提供的資料，AM730的社長在2007年10月15日已經向《基督日報》承諾贊助AM730所收取的一半費用（即10萬元），葛佈大會亦已在2007年10月20日同意支持另外的10萬元。因此，本調查團有理由相信當《基督日報》在10月底及11月初發出上段所提及的電郵籌款信時，已經知道信中特刊開支表所列的刊登費預算已獲全數贊助，卻沒有披露哪些項目已經獲得全數贊助。至於6萬元的工資及租用攝影、攝錄器材支出，與獨立項目所涉及的6萬元攝影器材購置支出，兩者明顯有重疊的地方。

Chan / 2008-05-27 00:40:42

更正：請為「基督日報廣告欺詐事件」及「未得同意下，濫用別人名稱，作招徠廣告之欺詐行為」道歉，及立刻停止此違背信仰行為。

基報自已引述根據Alexa每月有1,500,000擊點，而Alexa卻指出事實不符。再者，基報在未得同意下，濫登其它機構在其廣告欄，藉他人名義提升名譽，向不知情者招攬廣告，不單只不當，而是實質欺詐。由於証據確實，請基報立刻道歉，及立刻停止此違背信仰行為。

Chan / 2008-05-27 00:19:07

請為「基督廣告欺詐事件」及「未得同意不，濫用別人名稱，作招徠廣告之欺詐行為」道歉，及立刻停止此違背信仰行為。招徠廣告之欺詐行為」

Hin / 2008-05-25 20:36:16

Wrong speculation and conspiracy theory

I don't know who has the chance to read the protest letter from YD regarding today's meeting but I think their speculation and wrong conspiracy theory needed to be dealt with.

There has been a speculation in their letter that all the pastors are doing and what Chritian Times are doing is trying to put them off the market. They even quoted the example in Japan. Is it necessary to kick someone off the field because of possible competition?

4. 市場競爭者故意把《基督日報》捲入異端輿論
捏造事端由於《時代論壇》的大肆報導令流言不斷播佈，當中胡志偉牧師於11 月首當其充對《基督日報》
發炮，然而令人疑惑的是在肇事3 個月後的調查報告指出《基督日報》在操作及籌款上並沒有違規行為。
委實，胡牧師與《論壇》關係密切，似乎有人藉胡牧師發表了針對《日報》的這些提問。如果胡牧師要提
出對《日報》的疑問，放下其對《日報》之先入為主的想法，宜回到中立位置上去討論。
令人驚訝的是，在香港發生的情況好像是日本兩報社競逐之翻版，日本兩報社競爭，原佔有市場的一方慫
恿山谷真進行不正當競爭行為，持續性地攻擊其後進入市場的報社為異端。在事件還沒有清晰調查之前，
有人並非站在中立位置上，反之站在原市場佔有的一方上，試圖想要封鎖《基督日報》進入市場。

First of all, can GH really tjhreaten CT? Is there any facts and figures prove that this is happening?

Secondly, there are many "competitions" in the Christian field, there is no need to kick anyone off the field simply due to competition or possible competition.

When the Alliance church are doing really good, does that mean the Baptist church need to false accuse them in order to get them off the field. When a certain publisher is doing really well, does that mean other publishers need to join hands to force this publisher out of business. When a certain Christian relief organization is doing a lot of good work and gaining a lot of support, does that mean other relief organizations need to false accuse them in order to keep them off the relief field. ABSOLUTELY NOT!

This kind of false speculation and wrong conspiracy theory is really and absolutely wrong to be used at all. I am surprised that YD is using this as their basis for argument.

For any legal case, motive is very important, I think they should find a better one. What is the motive? That is a very good question. As someone stated that those pastors are much much older than these young people, what have they done that trickle these series of investigation, public denouncement and questioning from these "old" pastors? Is it that they had nothing better to do? Once again, absolutely not!

In the recent history of Chinese churches, even in the history of dealing with cults, have anyone seen such a movement among the Chinese churches? Try to name me one!

Keep our eyes open and watch, use our mind to think and use our reasoning to understand. Don't let all the unnecessary arguements to confuse nor divert our attention.

For many, I can see that they are out of good intention in defending for the innocent. Based on what they read, I think there are reasons for them to say what they said. Just keep talking and interacting with one another, don't be too emotional or make too many inappropriate remarks or use unnecessary wordings.

Let's keep talking.

Hin / 2008-05-25 18:49:45

Efficient and inefficient

I think we are all amaze at the efficiency of how GH put news on their web page but I am also amaze at the inefficiency of how GH remove the ads from those who request them to do so.

I also noticed that Shatin Baptist Church, Rev. Enoch Lam's church and YMCA are still on the ad page, this is really interesting. They have stated that they don't want to have anything to do with GH but yet their ads are still with GH. Is it due to the inefficency of GH or deliberate refusal to remove the ads in order to confuse the public that they are OK?

I wonder if they really remove all those who requested to be removed, how many ads do they have left?

I also heard that some organizations never asked them to put their link with GH but GH still do it. Is that right at all?

Hin / 2008-05-25 18:27:10

A few things and questions

1. Rev. Enoch Lam has stated with a few other former advisors that he will not received interview from GH nor provide any news to GH. But, we saw the recent news in GH about Rev. Lam's comment on the earthquake in China. I think GH should respect Rev. Lam's desire.

2. The last advisor from Australia has finally disappeared. GH has said that they will regroup their board but until now, nothing has happened. I also said that the best way to regain trust is to get the former advisors back on board. Nothing has been done so far.

3. I once questioned how come Equip to Serve of Rev. Choy suddenly appeared on the front page of GH, now it is gone. I don't know whether Rev. Choy knew about this at all.

4. I asked whether someone can check on the hits of GH and see if they are reliable or not. Is there an objective agent who will give the number of hits of a website besides GH themselves? Can someone help?

5. For anyone who know Edward Shih, can someone share about his conversion experience, where did he accept Christ, his church membership etc so that we can know him more?

6. I heard that Edward sold his own property in order to run GH, is that true? Can anyone respond to this? How much do they need to run GH? How much income do they get from the ads (I think very little)? What is the deficit per year? If Edward sold his property to run this, how long can he last?

7. If GH has collected any donation from churches and Christians, I think they should report the income and expense for these donations. Can they do that or will they do that?

8. GH has issued a written protest for the meeting in Hong Kong today but many of the statements in it is also a statement without solid proof. For example, for Yamaya's legal case, it has been going on for years, the prosecutor for the case has been changed also, Yamaya was never convicted of any criminal or illegal act against YD. What is the point of making such a statement? Is that misleading in some way? Filing a legal case doesn't proof the accused party is wrong until convicted.

9. The statement about competition between two newspapers in Japan is also misleading and inappropriate. Trying to link this to Christian Times and GH is a very misleading statement and doing CT unjustice. GH is doing exactly what they accuse others are doing.

10. There are a few churches and organizations who requested to remove their link at GH but GH refused to do that. Is that right? Can they even respect other's request?

11. The legal letters from GH to the IEC has been more than 6 weeks, what is next?

They are not just a group of young people, I think this should be clear. The advisors are not involved in their daily operation. Who is the figure head, who is the master mind? Is it Edward Shih? or is there someone else?

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