美國考古學者回應影音使團反駁（12月1日消息）

美國考古學者
回應影音使團反駁
（12月1日消息）

時代論壇 / 2010年12月1日

美國考古學者Dr. Randall Price及Dr. Don Patton再次回應影音使團轄下的挪亞方舟國際事（NAMI）的反駁。並就自拍的相片及NAMI發放的相片作比對分析，以證明他倆已找到NAMI所講的「方舟遺址」。英文全文可瀏覽www.worldofthebible.com/update.htm。

對於NAMI指兩人的證據只是揣測和傳聞，兩人強調他們已提供了不同方面的證據去支持他們的意見，就如NAMI也是在陳述他們的意見。他倆只是希望為公眾提供另一視角去檢視NAMI的非常宣稱。

之後兩人回應NAMI的反駁，例如2008年新聞發佈會上的標本是否木化石的問題，他們指NAMI並無回應發現地點造假的問題，這影響到提供樣本的人、即當地領隊Parasut的可信性。

Price在回應中又澄清：自己沒有到過兩個發現地點，但Patton及攝影師Pedro Venegas則確曾實地考察兩個地點。之後列出相片比對，指他們拍到的其中一個發現地點，與NAMI發佈的其中一張遺址相片的地形很接近，背景石頭的表面形狀亦與NAMI提供的相片相似。

兩人預計NAMI將繼續否認他倆找到的地點就是NAMI所指的方舟遺址。他倆認為NAMI真正有說服力的反駁應是公開遺址的位置，讓獨立、有專業資格的人士去考證。兩人更承諾，若公開考證後證實他倆之前的結論有誤，他們願意公開道歉。

本報曾就Price及Patton的反駁聯絡影音使團尋求回應。至本文截稿前，影音使團未有回應。

（www.christiantimes.org.hk，時代論壇每日快拍，2010.12.01）

舊回應12則

Hin / 2010-12-08 18:34:21

Wow, they are amazing!

The group who put on a special page in the face book to defend MEDIA is amazing. They could come up with all the materials in 7 days, I have to applause their effort and dedication.

I am sure Dr. Price will respond to their questions. In their report, there are a lot of speculations and deductions. Any report, no matter from MEDIA or Dr. Price, others will and can raise questions and have their own speculation.

As in the conclusion of the article, let's give MEDIA a bit more time to show more evidences to prove their findings. It will soon be one year anniversary after their claim, let's see what more did they find after one long year.

Many will admire their desire to search evidences for the ARK but the key is the timing and the claim. For making such a claim, no matter it is 99% or 90%, they need solid adequate evidences before they can do that.

As the group raise many questions against Dr. Price's report, there are still many questions in Dr. Price's report being unanswered by MEDIA as well. I think the group can't answer for them and MEDIA has to do it themselves or they just couldn't answer them.

It is also interesting that the Turkish government has not responded to this big mess so far. I think they won't until they find out which way can benefit their tourism and income the most. They are controlling the ball and waiting for the right time to serve.

Since this group is so logical and scientific, if they could pick up the suspicious points in Dr. Price's report, it amazed me that they couldn't see the suspicious points in MEDIA's presentation. That is a very big and interesting question for me.

As I said before, in one of the photos, the wood on the ceiling and the walls are so smooth but then there is "hand-cut" rough wooden beam right in the middle, it is very odd and illogical. I am posing an observation as the group did, I don't have to be any kind of expert to raise up this kind of questions.

In the same way, when they challenged why Dr. Price wasn't in the photo and then speculated that he might be worry about the legal liability if in any case, they are proven falsely accusing MEDIA; then, what about the video and photos of MEDIA, why not the team members are not in some of the important video footage? Why the clothing are different? We can put the photos side by side and list the video links for the readers to watch once again. That will bring up the same effect as the group did to Dr. Price's report.

Once again, if they are so smart to pick up the possible problems with Dr. Price's photos, they should be able to do the same for MEDIA's photos and video clips. It really puzzles me.

Does it make any sense after 7 long years, they didn't have one Chinese Christian scientist to go with them? The big four have absolutely no credentials at all in this field, why? Isn't that something that should puzzle the group. The only known person to the Chinese churches might be Dr. Leung In Sing who went with them in the beginning but he is not an expert in that area nor his claims (such as the stone anchors) are any good at all.

MEDIA's problem is not only in this ARK search but far more than this. They have blow this up so much to the extent that they can't let it go away easily and must go on and on and on.

For this group, if they are what they claimed to be, I admire their desire, courage and effort and I am sure they will continue to observe this.

MEDIA has been searching for the ARK for more than 7 years, if this group goes back to the first time in 2004, using the intelligent minds that they have, they should also see a lot of problems and they should encourage MEDIA to seek help or they should go with them if they love them so much and are willing to go so far to defend them.

If they don't know MEDIA personally, I doubted but if they really don't, then, get to know them and they will know more about them. I encouraged them to do so and they will know the truth very soon.

They even posted the following statement against Dr. Liang:

有信徒因教會邀請梁博士主講「聖經、科學與方舟」之聚會後，導至某
些信徒靈性低落，教會人數大減，因而對教會有該聚會的安排，心感抱怨.

It is indeed interesting. I listened to the content of Dr. Liang's talk but I don't see how he can discouraged believers from going to church.

What is the meaning of 靈性低落 and the attendance of the church 大減? I think it might be because the believers are so discouraged to know what MEDIA has done, they might have trusted MEDIA for many years, donated a lot to them and now they know the truth and that is why they are being discouraged. That might be more likely the case.

I think the pastor shouldn't blame Dr. Liang but blame himself for not protecting his flock well enough.

I have heard that believers really admired Dr. Liang's courage and humility and they are being encouraged greatly to study the Bible more and to love God more. The same content but generated different responses, what does that tell us? I think the group is not fair to Dr. Liang.

Detecting problems from the photos doesn't have to be an expert to do that. Look at the paragraph in which Dr. Price talked about Dr. Liang:

The Analysis of NAMI’s Photographic Evidence by Dr. David Liang

Now that NAMI has released the photos on the internet, experts have began to study them and voice their concerns. One of these is Dr. David Liang of Ottawa, Canada, who has done his own independent analysis of the photographic evidence. Before retirement in 2003, Dr. Liang was the Head and Thrust Leader of Space Systems and Technologies within the Canadian Department of National Defense. He was a civilian scientist with equivalent military rank of one star General in charge of all research and development activities within Canadian Department of National Defense for Surveillance of Space, Surveillance from Space, Ballistic Missile Defense as well as Nuclear radiation activities.
We have attached to this report that of Dr. Liang because even though it is our contention that the site is manufactured and the materials inside modern, based on our interviews and investigation, Dr. Liang’s analysis of the structural features in the Paraşüt photographs reveal inconsistencies with what would be expected of the real Noah’s Ark.

There is no where that they claimed that Dr. Liang is a photo expert in any sense. Dr. Liang just raised his questions by looking at the photos presented by MEDIA just like I raised one of my questions after I looked at one of the photos, I don't have to be an expert to do that at all.

If someone told me that they found the remains of Adam and then on the wrist bone of Adam's remains in the photo presented by them I saw a Rolex watch, do I need to be a photo expert in order to raise a question? Please!

If they are as scientific as they are, I wish they can be more fair and reasonable at the same time. They can put down Dr. Patton but they can't confirm the claim of MEDIA.

Jennifer Law / 2010-12-08 13:51:47

To Hin & others

Dear Hin, you are welcome. It has also been first time in years that I have renewed by subscription for Christiantimes...honestly I no longer consider myself as part of the "christian circle" for a long time, but even if I am not supportive of the "faith" itself, I should so something for those who are not afraid of speaking the "truth".

To others: 「事實勝於雄辯」；與其雙方不斷回應，何不真正將此case 「搬上法庭」，讓第三方來權衡誰真誰假？「護航」人士亦請不要把「華人什麼什麼」的一套再搬出來了吧？難道一連幾星期於無記看李小龍電影重播看的「上了腦」，非要以為人家知道你是「華人」就「欺負」你嗎？

Tevah / 2010-12-08 12:55:06

New Video

http://www.noahs-ark.tv/patton-noahs-ark-nami-fraud.wmv

Tevah / 2010-12-08 12:51:23

One possible ending to this Noah's Ark case

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=86799&l=d4283dd1e9&id=100001771390990

張國棟 / 2010-12-08 03:07:07

護航？

其實，如果沒有機會主義作祟，真的找到了才發報，又不趁機到處要求信徒捐出巨額金錢，我恐怕已沒有很多人會有微言，甚至會讚揚！現在還要弄到用法律行動機威嚇別人，實在有點無謂。

不如另一方的人反問一下，如果那真的不是方舟，他們應否對那些曾經聲稱99.99%發現了方舟的機構，和支持那機構的人和小組，採取法律行動？可能他們也要有人專責搜集證據，免得到時有人抵賴。

約拿 / 2010-12-07 21:57:15

方舟護航小組

發現“方舟護航小組“在網上成立了，有新角度去睇方舟，值得大家去下

http://www.facebook.com/pages/fang-zhou-hu-hang-xiao-zu-Convoy-the-Ark/174708979213451

Hin / 2010-12-07 18:04:21

To Jennifer Law: thanks for reminding

I am a "paid" member of Christian Times, I think that means I have to pay in order to read the news, post the comments.
You reminded me that I should exercise my "donation" right and I should support Christian Times by donating. I will do that. Thanks for reminding.

Jennifer Law / 2010-12-07 15:09:49

To Hin: Are u exercising your donation rights?

[I posted this in another news article but will re-post here, in case Hin hasn't read it yet].

Dear Hin, u have been following the "Ark Incident" for so long now, I am just wondering (and no offence) whether you are a "free" or "paid" member of Christiantimes?

You mentioned about exercising one's "donation rights", I think besides getting frustrated and voicing out your anger/concerns over the whole thing, what we could actually do is to show support to those who speak "the truth". That is, exercising one's "donation rights" to those who is not afraid of speaking "the truth", before their voices die out...

Hin / 2010-12-06 17:14:08

Read another report from another perspective and an interesting photo from MEDIA

Here is one that is worth reading and a much shorter version than Dr. Price's report:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=235033

As I went down the article and saw a photo once more from MEDIA (the one with a cross beam and some wooden hooks that MEDIA claimed that it is for securing the animals in the Ark), I noticed the wooden planks on the ceiling and on the wall are so different from the cross beam, it seems they are woods from two different period of time. It is just an interesting observation. Take a look at it once again yourself. It seems to be they are woods produced by two different kinds of technology. One is so smooth (the ceiling and the wall) and one is so rough.

Hin / 2010-12-02 07:24:26

The reason for the threat

The reason that they have to threaten others because they couldn't further prove their "discovery".

Please look back in the past 8 months since their amazing claim in April, what more proof did they provide besides attacking all those who questioned them? None so ever!

Enoch Lam said that there will be a huge celebration ceremony in the beginning of July in Turkey, where is it?

NAMI said that they are applying to protect the site, where is it?

No wonder they are mad because they couldn't defend in any other ways but just by being mad. Only mad people will respond in such a way. I am not surprise at all!

Wing / 2010-12-02 01:53:05

信心動搖?!

「凡指控者及參與散播這種指控而不加以核實的個人或機構，都同樣地構成誹謗罪，我們將保留法律追究的權利。」

影音作出上述的回應確實令支持者感到困惑﹔如方舟是千真萬確，又何須介懷攻擊和抹黑。這些搞作絕不會將方舟發現「弄真成假」。措詞過激的回應，有欠風範之餘，更顯自信不足﹔倒不如提出更強證據來得有說服力。"Time will tell."

Hin / 2010-12-01 17:17:53

It is indeed interesting..

I think Dr. Price has offered a very good defense in his article and as I said NAMI (MEDIA) has avoided the crucial points but worked on the questionable and selected ones only. They challenged Dr. Price for not exposing the identity of the witnesses but then themselves also can't expose the coordinates of their discovery site.

NAMI also said that they are asking the Turkish government to preserve the site before they will expose it. It has been 7 months, what happened? Are they trying to play with our memory so that we will forget what they said they are going to do? In the same way, they tried to divert our attention not to remember what they claimed in 2004-5, not to remember the claim about the anchors, not to remember the false accusation about Dr. Liang.

Who will actually follow the development of the story like some of us? Just by reading bits and pieces will easily deceive many and that is what they are doing all along.

Dr. Price pointed out: We believe that our questions and scrutiny of Parasut and his evidence resulted in his banning us from the intended expedition in 2008 and refusing to include us (and any professional geologist or archaeologist) in the NAMI team in 2009 when they were shown the “discovery.” This is a very interesting point, if this is such an important discovery or since this has been going on for at least 6 to 7 years, why is it that they don't even have a professional geologist or archaeologist going with them on such an important trip. They should have someone like that on the team or ready to go with them when they have the opportunity to discover more evidences. This indeed is a very interesting point.

The "big 4" have no scientific background nor credential, why these four?

Just using common logic and common sense, we can see there are so many problems with them but for someone who can use blind faith like them, I don't see that there is any possibility for them to exercise any common logic and common sense. They will just keep going on to claim that they are right and they have discovered the ARK. To me, it is reaching the level of "insanity". Dangerous indeed!

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