影音使團反駁美考古學者指控（11月27日消息）

影音使團反駁美考古學者指控
（11月27日消息）

時代論壇 / 2010年11月27日

就影音使團兩位美國前伙伴日前針對方舟發現的批評，挪亞方舟國際事工（NAMI）於11月25日發表措辭強硬的聲明反駁，並表示保留法律追究權利。

聲明指，有關 Randall Price 和 Don Patton 聯名發表的“A Critique of the Claim of Noah’s Ark Ministries International of the Discovery of a Wooden Structure on Mount Ararat”，當中大部分資料都是出於捏造或揣測。例如文章提及的NAMI site，絕非他們發現木結構的地方；文章宣稱NAMI○六年公開的石化木照片是造假，亦屬荒謬；而文章訪問當地一位庫爾德族人，聲稱曾參與搬運木材上山搭建「佈景」造假，但在缺乏可以當面對質的情況下，對被指控者是絕對不公平。

聲明強調，他們與Randall Price合作關係告吹，是因為當地團隊對兩位美國人的不信任，認為他們二人傲慢和欺人太甚。並指他們現今違反保密協，議私自在網上公開木結構內陶器樣本照片，以至公開私人通訊電郵，有違誠信操守。

聲明全文見：http://www.noahsarksearch.net/big5/pdf/2010112601.pdf

（http://christiantimes.org.hk，時代論壇每日新聞，2010.11.27）

舊回應10則

約拿 / 2010-12-07 21:53:31

方舟護航小組

發現“方舟護航小組“在網上成立了，有新角度去睇方舟，值得大家去下

http://www.facebook.com/pages/fang-zhou-hu-hang-xiao-zu-Convoy-the-Ark/174708979213451

Hin / 2010-12-01 17:30:18

To Cheung: you are right but it is difficult

You are right that we can do that to disprove them but they will keep arguing about the presented "evidences" or "challenges", just look at how they deal with Dr. Liang and Dr. Price.

I can take one step further is that even Dr. Price can actually build similar structure at that height, they can still say that they are fabricated evidence and the structure is not at that height...

It is also difficult to find the ARK after all, I wish Dr. Price is not searching for it which will complicated his motivation behind his challenges. For Dr. Liang, it is much convincing and appropriate.

After said this, I am sure what we did and what others have done have already woke up many people. If not, NAMI won't be so offensive!

張國棟 / 2010-12-01 14:53:16

To Hin

Are you kidding?

要證明NAMI 的聲稱為假，只須要指出他們聲稱是方舟的並不是方舟，或指出他們處理證據的過程和手法十分不恰當，令人不能相信他們展示的那幾塊木頭真的來自方舟。你提出的1和2，是為 neither necessary nor sufficient 。

張國棟 / 2010-12-01 14:45:05

影音使團啊，請去控告 CBN 發放失實誹謗消息！

影音使團早前聲稱，那兩位博士的報告含誹謗成份，然後又聲稱，有份發放那報告的《時代論壇》也要負法律責任。那麼，現在連美國保守基督教電視台也發放失實誹謗消息，請影音使團為了正義、為了真理，務必跟 CBN 打官司！請不要退縮啊，否則人們以為你欺善怕惡。

Hin / 2010-12-01 08:47:46

Two things Dr. Price can do

In order to prove NAMI to be false, there are two things Dr. Price can do:

1. To find the real ARK and prove it scientifically.
2. To build something similar to what NAMI shown to the public at the same height of the mountain.

Will they accomplish any one of the above two or both? We need to wait and see. I think they will focus on 1. rather than 2.

Tevah / 2010-12-01 08:32:35

700 club interviewed Dr Randall Price

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/November/Researcher-Noahs-Ark-Discovery-a-Big-Hoax/ and I have linked it at http://www.noahsarksearch.com/2010/11/2010-updates/.

Hin / 2010-11-27 22:53:07

To Cheung: Regret to say....

I am regret to say that the pastors will not withdraw their postings on the website of MEDIA. What they will do is just wait for the time to do the job. Just like what we used to say: "Let the wind do the job."

They will put the responsibility on MEDIA and others. They will say that when they spoke for MEDIA, they based on their presentation and they seems to be true. Now that they seems to be not, then, it is MEDIA's responsibility to remove the postings. But, if MEDIA is still defending, then, they will wait until the TRUTH comes out before they take any action.

I have seen many of these cases in North America too, within the churches and within the Christian circle. They regard them as wise and smart.

Another thing is the choose of two evils. They will let the time to do the job rather then blowing the whole thing up. They thought the second option will do greater damage than the first one. A lie will just go away by itself, that is what they believe. That is why they won't make a move at all.

What we can do is to keep ourselves alert and awake, don't participate in the things that we know is wrong or untrue, don't support this kind of ministry and in addition, alert and advise our friends who will listen not to do that.

I think the support to MEDIA is definitely decreasing. Without definite proof of their "discovery", I don't think they can drag too long on this. May be one or two years, they should die out! Also, if anything happened to Parasut, for example, if the Turkish government will announce or back up the evidences of the hoax, then, MEDIA will definitely come to an end sooner. What they are depending on right now is that it is hard to prove nor disprove the "discovery". They are just playing tricks on the public. They request the challenger to provide solid evidences but they themselves can't provide solid evidences in the first place.

There are not too many people who has a clear and sharp mind. For those who know, they should help those who don't. Once again, I am sure the support is decreasing, just from the recent attendance in New York for the new movie and the sharing meetings about the ARK in Vancouver, we should know and they should know.

張國棟 / 2010-11-27 15:02:49

回應

十月中影音嘗試去美國護教學大會裡尋找支持者，但有批評者提示大會負責人不要上當。此事，我知的不夠多，但知情人士應該講出來，好叫大家知道發生了甚麼事。

看現在影音的反應，似是騎虎難下，要他們悔改難若登天。與其要求某些固執的機構人士悔改，不如逼使那些支持他們的牧者退縮和不敢再公開支持和鼓勵信徒捐款。香港基督教圈子其實是森林，奉行資本主義，若機構被關水喉，管那些人再執固，也只會無疾而終。如此，我會建議把批評重點放在那些牧者或講員身上，例如那些仍然有短片放在影音網站裡的人。最好是他們再拍一些短片，表達對影音的質疑，讓信徒有個明白。

有 bad cop 也要有 good cop ，醜人當然是由我們這些沒有地位的平信徒去做，那些平日最愛扮演好好先生的牧者，大可以走去開解那些被信徒大肆批評的牧者，哄哄他們，鼓勵他們公開表示要跟某些人劃清界線。最好還要有人去游說那些長開水喉的大有錢佬。此舉必定能令任何小人物立時成為教內大英雄呢。或許明光社也可以把*教內*媒體醜惡文化納入為其堅察對象，趁這機會翻一翻身，讓信徒看到他們何等偉大、無私、公平，眼中只有真理沒有護短，不單會批評教外媒體誇張失實沒有道德，還會清理教內枯枝。我肯定那時會少了很多人說他們是宗教右派或不夠理性。

（這些戰略考慮不錯的。但我個人不存厚望。香港教會很多具影響力的牧者、學者和講員，才是最不負責任的一群。他們要我們參與他們搞的甚麼行動時就曉以大義，彷如神聖和道德的化身，但有起事來就你眼望我眼，推說甚麼顧存大局、甚麼分身不暇、甚麼這不是我的責任云云。一個唔該，甚至找平信徒來過橋，反過來批評他們為甚麼那麼愛輕信荒謬的言論，但對真正犯事人從輕發落－－就如昔日《基督日報》事件那般。）

Hin / 2010-11-27 12:02:07

I don't know where to start....

I am so confused as where to start to comment about MEDIA's response to Dr. Price's report because there are too many points that are unbelievable and unacceptable.

I am so amazed at MEDIA's courage and "thick face skin" to defend themselves in this way.

They are so mad at others falsely accusing them but they falsely accused Dr. Liang and there is not even one apology nor any correction at all. What is this?

They said that Dr. Price has announced something that have not been proven, aren't they doing the same since 2004? What is this?

They can doubt others fabricating false evidence to accuse them but they won't allow others to doubt them fabricating false evidence to win support. What is this?

MEDIA concluded that Dr. Price is arrogant by quoting him for saying "how is it that they allowed the exclusion of the very people that could confirm their discovery to the world?"

Honestly, you really can't tell whether a person is arrogant or not by reading the above statement.

Also, if you read the whole paragraph:

"It should be pointed out that at the crucial point where Paraşüt was finally prepared to take them to the site(s), he excluded the professionals on the team (the American contingent), but only allowed NAMI media and their media guest to participate. After years of NAMI preparing for this moment, how is it that they allowed the exclusion of the very people that could confirm their discovery to the world? They will say that they were simply gathering the evidence and that the intent remains to launch a full-scale professional investigation of the site(s)."

I don't see any arrogant attitude in this but simply stated the suspicious action of Parasut.

It is simply a wrong conclusion from MEDIA.

They even accused Christian Times for posting the report news:

對於《時代論壇》多次就有關事件在未經深入了解和查證資料來源真偽，便急於刊載和大肆報導，令我們有理由懷疑這是刻意針對和打擊影音使團，以及方舟探索事工為目標的行為。

What is 急於刊載和大肆報導? I didn't see that at all, Christian Times also 急於刊載和大肆報導 their defense, should Dr. Price accuse them for attacking him? What is this?

I really wonder who is arrogant and who is falsely accusing others.

They only listed a few points that they can use to attack Dr. Price but didn't touch on other points that are obvious against them.

They are indeed very good in this kind of tactic to defend themselves and attack others, I guess this is due to the experience build up in the past years! Simply amazing!

3715 / 2010-11-27 11:46:12

替在影音工作的肢體難過

賽52: 11 你們離開吧！離開吧！
從巴比倫出來。
不要沾不潔淨的物；
要從其中出來。
你們扛抬耶和華器皿的人哪，
務要自潔。

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