耶穌青年會抗議5.25聚會表示本週內將開記者會（5月27日消息）

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耶穌青年會抗議5.25聚會
表示本週內將開記者會
（5月27日消息）

時代論壇 / 2008年5月27日

耶穌青年會昨日發出新聞稿，指5月25日「異常積極．極端熱心的背後……」聚會中的證人為假證人，並表示將於本週內召開記者會回應，但未定出具體時間地點。新聞稿全文如下：

嚴正抗議：假證人．525 聚會事件

本會針對 5 月25 日「異常積極。極端熱心的背後……」聚會發表嚴正聲明，聚會裡面出來的為假證人，他們對耶穌青年會所作的見證是虛假的。

聚會上提出的為從國內傳來扭曲的假見證，從上海來港的自稱為耶穌青年會前會員的馬俐，被洗腦說耶穌青年會教導統一教教導，做出扭曲的假見證。有人帶著意圖利用被洗腦的國內證人把本會定為問題團體，這不是基督徒的行為，是嚴重破壞基督的身體的犯罪行為。

並且，此聚會明顯帶著意圖把耶穌青年會捏造成為與統一教有關的團體，本會已掌握明顯的捏造證據。主辦機構連討論機會都沒有給本會，實為不公義不公平的聚會，本會表達強烈抗議我們定必正面解開所有對本會的誤解，以及對散播謠言、洗腦捏造假證人一事追究到底。

＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝

另外，針對5月25日「異常積極．極端熱心的背後……」聚會，本會昨日已於網站上（www.ydhk.org）登出嚴正抗議，指證有人作假見證，本會定必追究到底。有關聚會中對本會之諸多抹黑，捏造成為統一教、或類似統一教的團體及各樣指控，本會將於本周內召開記者招待會，一一回應及指出事件背後的陰謀，招待會時間、地點、安排稍後公佈。

相關資訊：【《基督日報》事件專輯】

（www.christiantimes.org.hk，時代論壇每日快拍，2008.5.27）

舊回應17則

Hin / 2008-06-02 19:35:58

Welcome Cham

Let me explain a bit more:

1）耶穌青年會一直以來不是都說了Rev. David Jang只是韓國耶穌青年會的創辦人嗎？究竟是誰一直在說國際耶穌青年會是他創辦的呢？年長的牧者支持年輕人的工作有什麽奇怪嗎？還是在你的閱歷當中這是不現實呢？（或許在華人教會界是這樣的，越來越不能排除這個的可能性，雖然有點可悲）。

First of all, I am not saying that they claimed anything different from before, what I am saying is that they still denied David Yang is related to the YD International, meaning that they are denying David Jang as the founder of YD. I just want to confirm that, if that is what YD is claiming, then if there is anything that shows David Jang is the founder of YD International, then it will be a problem.

Secondly, I am not against young people being used by God. Daniel, Joseph, David are all young people in the Bible. God can definitely use young people. I am not against them at all, may God use young people. In my own experience, I saw many young and good servant of God and I always wish the seniors can continue to develop and help those young ones so that there can be continuation in all fields of ministry.

2）中國是非常敏感海外教會關係，但是這個跟從中國創立一個帶著向世界傳福音的國際事工有什麽矛盾呢？或者你認為沒有可能從中國興起向世界傳福音的工作？不過這可是當代神學傳教學領袖們的一致觀點。

I am also excited to see how the churches are talking about overseas mission, this is great. What I am saying is that since YD International is founded in China, meaning that the religious policy shouldn't be a problem since it is a native organization founded by native people, there shouldn't be any suspicion about overseas connection. Wan Zhou has planted many overseas churches as I know, that again is not a problem.

3）17歲也好，18歲也好，26歲也好，27歲也好，不知道是比你年長，還是比你年少，不過這個是問題嗎？問題還是跟第一點一樣，或許你的閱歷無法接受這樣的事實。可惜事實就是事實咯。神難道不可以興起這樣的年輕人嗎？順便問一下，你知道耶穌基督和跟從他的12門徒的年紀嗎？如果知道的話，我覺得你不會在這個上面做文章的吧。

The age is not a problem for me, it is not old people can do things better but I am just curious how did they do what they are doing now, even in the way they are responding. We can say that it is because God is with them but I think there might be more. It is only a suspicion. If you don't like this suspicion, take it out, I am perfectly OK with it.

cham / 2008-06-02 15:48:45

To Hin：無法支持你的看法

Hin / 2008-06-01 22:41:57

Typo error correction for the previous comment

I have made two corrections to the previous comment, please see below:

Please read the following report from YD themselves regarding the finding of YD International:

耶青創辦人親身見證了耶青的創會歷史，從十多位大學生的聚會開始，發展至今天世界宣教的運動，一切都是神的恩典。她說：「1999年，我在復旦大學讀大一的時候信主了，由於很想明白聖經，我去參加了很多聚會……我也非常熱心地參與各樣的侍奉，包括跟同學、朋友見證福音，帶領小組等。不過，當時校園裏面基督徒還是挺少的，我有個真切的願望，就是在我身邊有跟我很親近的基督徒姐妹可以和我一同行走天路，所以向神做了這樣的禱告。結果奇妙的事情真的發生了……」神答應了她的禱告，讓他認識到班上的同學，就是今天坐在我旁邊的另一位同工，二人再聚合更多弟兄姊妹在一起。就這樣到2001年，復旦大學和北京大學的10多位學生在北京獻上了創會禮拜，正式成立了國際耶穌青年會。

First of all, they didn't mention about David Jang at all and it seems that the founder of YD International is a sister and not David Jang. Some said in the other links that David Jang is only responsible for YD in Korea. Indeed this is interesting to see how David Jang works with the young sister in China for this Korean branch of YD (if it is true).

Secondly, they claimed that they formed the YD International in Beijing in 2001. Someone commented that the article from the church in China is due to worry about international link with overseas organization and it is against the Chinese religious policy. From this report from YD themselves, it seems that the group is a native group and not from overseas, there shouldn't be a problem with the religious policy at all. What it means that it is the YD from Beijing that began the whole YD movement. Let's see if this is true.

The yound sister who is the founder is attending university first year in 1999, that is 9 years ago. At that time, normally she might be only 17 or 18, meaning that at the time she formed the YD International, she is 19 or 20 and by now, she is 26 or 27.

Please take note of these and see what is coming next and see who is telling the truth about YD.

GH avoid putting the report of 530 on their website can't be accidental (that is my own judgement). Look at their efficiency in putting other news on and the forum that they used to attack those who attacked YD. This slow and delayed response is really interesting. My own speculation is that they are trying to distant themselves from YD and tried to show that they are two distinct and independent organizations. Smart move but won't work.

Hin / 2008-06-01 22:22:43

Another interesting observation

Please read the following report from YD themselves regarding the finding of YD International:

First of all, they didn't mention about David Jang at all and it seems that the founder of YD International is a sister and not David Jang. Some said in the other links that David Jang is only responsible for YD in Korea. Indeed this is interesting to see how David Jang works with the yound sister in China for this Korean branch of YD (if it is true).

Secondly, they claimed that they formed the YD International in Beijing in 2001. Someone commented that the article from the church in China is due to worry about international link with overseas organization and it is against the Chinese religious policy. From this report from YD themselves, it seems that the group is a native group and not from overseas, there should be a problem with the religious policy at all. What it means that it is the YD from Beijing that began the whole YD movement. Let's see if this is true.

Please take note of these and see what is coming next and see who is telling the truth about YD.

Hin / 2008-06-01 18:00:20

They need the press conference

YD must have the press conference, if not, what 525 presented will have done a lot of damage to YD and GH.

What they did, both the press conference or the reporting are for internal more than external. The impact that they have is far less than what the others are doing against them. One simple observation is that they are not touching the general Christian public. Some ordinary Christians really doesn't know nor care what is happening. For the Christians leaders, I think they are not convincing at all by such a press conference.

They are trying their best to discredit those who are working against them or accusing them of false witnessing. Those people are putting their credibility on the line. As I said earlier, for the general Christian public, it is hard for us to prove the trustworthiness of either side. How do we know what they said is true or not? Can we go to China, go to Korea, go to Japan? No, we couldn't. Then, how can we judge? We can't judge by a simple statement nor by some witnesses' testimonies. Since both sides are obvious contradictory, one side must be true. We can only base on other factors to determine and it is sad to see that YD or GH have no references at all besides themselves and different parties on the other side somehow come to the same conclusion.

Since GH refused to go or admit, I think this will not end here. More things is coming for sure.

It is also interesting to observe that YD didn't report how many showed up at the press conference, how many other Christian media came besides GH, who rasied the question about the possible legal case, what others questions are being asked during the press conference, there are no photos at all and GH didn't report this right the way on their website as they did to other news including the 525. Aren't these interesting observations?

Then, we must look at how churches (besides the one from China) comment on the YD and GH members who attended their church before, how they behave while they were there; how did GH treat those who are against them (such as Rev. Wang, Rev. Lo, Mrs. Tang, Rev. Wu, Yeungs, Ma Li....), what about the number of hits per month as they reported, what about the way they presented about their financial needs before the Frank Graham meetings (did they ever deal with these issues directly), the way they reported about meetings, such as the meeting they had with Rev. Wang (Rev. Wang has to issue another report right after theirs to clarify), such as the 525 meeting. If we look back far enough, it is also strange how it is found out about their relationship between GH, YD, Olivet University, the different statements made by Peter about his training at Olivet University; and then, their changing of names, their unknown source of income, the misconception of just a group of young people doing a web newspaper (obvious it is not so), the refusal to remove ads which the churches and organizations requested them to do so, the way they dissolved the board of advisors, the false accusation about business competition, all these are not criminal offenses but they did tell us about the credibility about them. I think I have reasons to doubt and same for others.

We are not trying to force a group of young people out of their meaningful ministry, we are not being jealousy of what young people can do. I consider myself a young person too, love to see young people do great things for God and I am happy when others can do great things that I couldn't, I don't have to be jealousy at all.

Keep observing and listening!

佚名Anonymous / 2008-06-01 12:00:57

毫無新意也有理由

耶穌青年會記者會還是像HIN預料過的內容差不多一樣做了。他們這樣“明知故犯”肯定是有理由的咯。要么就是他們從來不顧這些輿論，顯然這個有點說不過去，否則幹嘛做記者會。或者是事實就只是這么一點點，所以人家講來講去也就只能是講這些事實么。要是耶穌青年會真的那么“狡猾”，那么幹嘛還做這么毫無新意的記者會呢？所以光講人家沒有道理或者狡猾也是很沒有道理的。

他們重申了這么多次了，不妨我們也不帶有偏見的仔細想一想咯。

Hin / 2008-06-01 03:42:59

Here is their report of the press conference

Here is their report:

耶青記者會　打破外界不實傳言

國內同工到港述說創會經過

By YD Press
自去年起有人於網上散播一私人博客，內容為未經證實之誣蔑本會的謠言，在傳媒不實的報導以及有關人等造謠滋事下，擴大了事件的影響範圍。本會同工雖曾多次嘗試與存有偏見及誤解的人士對話及會面，卻多次遭置諸門外。

耶穌青年會於五月三十日下午4時至6時半，於灣仔溫莎公爵社會服務大廈203會議室舉行記者招待會，由耶穌青年會同工們針對近日對本會的爭議作出聲明及澄清。出席的成員包括本會國際事工、國內及香港分部的同工。另外亦有本會國內同工暨創會者專程到港，親述耶青從十多人的聚會發展到今天世界校園宣教事工的見證。

自去年起有人於網上散播一私人博客，內容為未經證實之誣蔑本會的謠言，在傳媒不實的報導以及有關人等造謠滋事下，擴大了事件的影響範圍。本會同工雖曾多次嘗試與存有偏見及誤解的人士對話及會面，卻多次遭置諸門外。耶青在此次記者會中已一一澄清及反駁了外界的傳言。

私人博客傳疑惑為肇事根源

有關國內耶青的問題，不少人認為傳聞可信基於「從不同城市不同地方出來互相印證的證據」。針對此等質疑，耶青同工回應：「坊間的傳言如同多米諾效應一樣，在不知情人士看來，這個原本只是存在於少數的人中間的爭論，惡化為現在的公開誹謗事件。」此次事件的策動者為日本山谷真少校，他把捏造的資訊登載在其私人博客中。據悉，山谷真少校涉嫌參與報社之間競爭，竟杜撰張大衛牧師簡歷，對方針對此事承認不諱，卻仍未作出道歉。日本少校企圖利用香港某人，把他的私人博客從去年11月開始翻譯成中文，因而引發華人教會內的一些騷動。歸根究底，事件的策動者就是日本的山谷真少校。

而就合肥事件中出來的<警惕>一文作者對耶青之誤會，耶青同工曾於06年找對方進行談話，然而對方全然迴避教義問題進行辯論。另外，他亦於去年8月來港跟香港同工進行溝通，同工已就他對耶青教義上之疑惑作出澄清，唯其未能接受耶青同工的回答。

此等網絡上杜撰及個人猜測性文章迅速在網上傳到不同國家及城市，因而誤導了不少人，致使在不同地方均出現如同模子打出指責耶青言論。

重申耶穌基督的十字架是完全的得勝

關於十字架
我們從來沒有宣稱也不相信主第一次來是失敗的，他是為了擔當我們的罪而甘心走上十字架的。十字架不是失敗，乃是主耶穌基督在這個世界完全的得勝，通過主耶穌基督在十字架上流出寶血，向我們整個人類彰顯出父神很大饒恕的愛，我們通過祂十字架代贖，蒙　神的恩典，憑著信心接受這愛就白白的稱義。

關於再來
我們不相信「某人就是再來的基督」的論調。對於主的再來，我們堅信的是將來必親自有權柄有榮耀再臨世上，並且我們相信耶穌基督必快再來。

耶青同工續指：「在客西馬尼園的禱告中，我們看到的是主沒有按照人的意思，只尋求　神的旨意，全心順服的走上十字架的道路，我們可以確認一點：主是甘心走上十字架的道路的。同時，裡面有痛苦的眼淚是我們不可以輕看的，因為我們的罪把道成為肉身的主刺傷了。然而，主以難以形容的愛來背負我們所有的問題，所有的罪惡。所以，主是以完全的愛來得勝人類有所的罪惡，十字架分明是徹底的得勝，成就了整個人類的救贖！阿門。」

針對525聚會中，有教牧竟然根據網上傳聞指責耶青相信「十字架是失敗」及「某人是再來的基督」等謬論，耶青沒有教導也不相信此等教導。同時亦強調如有人不接受其信仰告白，而相信「十字架是失敗」及「某人是再來的基督」的話，耶青「絕對不接受這人成為本會的會員」及「絕對抗拒這異端信仰到底的」。

耶青同工指出，把一些我們不相信的教義套在我們身上，這做法是相當有問題的；就算把全世界所有的勢力加起來，都不能強逼我們此等謬論。當我們拿出信仰告白後，有人還是不相信，定意說我們背後還有別的東西，此等行為本不是基督徒當作的，是犯罪的行為。

國內信徒被灌輸本會為統一教之見證
由始至終，指控者所得到的所謂人證物證都從國內獲得。本會有足夠證據顯示，國內不少信徒或前信徒已被灌輸「耶穌青年會是統一教」的謬論。有人在國內自稱是研究異端的專家，然後把印有<警惕>一文的《真假門徒，正異福音》小冊子發給信徒。據說已在大陸發出3,000份，其多米諾效應之大可想而知。

此後，有國內信徒把有關小冊子轉寄給香港耶青，並告訴同工有人曾接觸過他們。通過他們的佐證，很明顯的揭露出來，該小冊子的編輯製作者前往大陸，向內地信徒灌輸耶穌青年會是統一教的謠言，並且教唆他們用統一教的概念來誹謗指控耶青。一封書面的證言和帶有簽名的小冊子被公諸於衆。

創辦人細訴耶青歷史起源

最後，耶青創辦人親身見證了耶青的創會歷史，從十多位大學生的聚會開始，發展至今天世界宣教的運動，一切都是神的恩典。她說：「1999年，我在復旦大學讀大一的時候信主了，由於很想明白聖經，我去參加了很多聚會……我也非常熱心地參與各樣的侍奉，包括跟同學、朋友見證福音，帶領小組等。不過，當時校園裏面基督徒還是挺少的，我有個真切的願望，就是在我身邊有跟我很親近的基督徒姐妹可以和我一同行走天路，所以向神做了這樣的禱告。結果奇妙的事情真的發生了……」神答應了她的禱告，讓他認識到班上的同學，就是今天坐在我旁邊的另一位同工，二人再聚合更多弟兄姊妹在一起。就這樣到2001年，復旦大學和北京大學的10多位學生在北京獻上了創會禮拜，正式成立了國際耶穌青年會。

記者招待會的最後部份設有問答環節，當記者問及有關耶青會否採取進一步的法律行動時，同工指出，直到現在耶青只是通過律師正式地向對耶青作出不正確判斷，以及某些散布謠言誹謗耶青的人發出了正式的告誡信。通過法律措施來保障耶青的信仰不被踐踏，這是被迫於無奈的。若果雙方能在一定公平公正公開的基礎上談話的話，我們當然是更加希望在主裡躺開心門談話；不然，為了維護我們，特別在國內弟兄姊妹的信仰自由，我們也不得不以要在公開，公正，公平的法庭上辯證我們的信仰；而針對誹謗者、傳謠者、進行洗腦者，包括525講員及小冊子製作者等等，本會督促他們儘快道歉，若不回頭，我們只能訴諸于法律的裁判。但一直以來考慮到教會的公共利益，耶穌青年會一直是低調地處理了這次的誹謗事件.

First of all, it is interesting that GH didn't report this. According to the past efficiency of GH, this is really interesting, especially they are so closely connected. GH has been posting many articles for YD's case but didn't post this one from YD, why?

Secondly, they never stated how many people came and who are the other media besides GH. It is a press conference, so how many reporters from other Christian media came, that is very important because that will show the effectiveness of the press conference. If only GH came, that is almost like an in house meeting. I think there might be other media came, but definitely not many. In the last paragraph, when asked about taking legal action, they didn't specify the reporter who asked is from which media, interesting again! Is that the only question that the reporters asked?

Look at this paragraph:

此次事件的策動者為日本山谷真少校，他把捏造的資訊登載在其私人博客中。據悉，山谷真少校涉嫌參與報社之間競爭，竟杜撰張大衛牧師簡歷，對方針對此事承認不諱，卻仍未作出道歉。

The wordings and sentence structure are very misleading. Did Yamaya admit that he did all he did because of competition between different Christian newspapers or did he admit that he has wrongly present the bio of David Jang? Either way, he is in a lot of trouble. As we know, the legal case against Yamaya has been on for sometime, if he already admit, then why the case is still on. GH or YD has switched a prosecutor for the case against Yamaya, what happened? If Yamaya has admitted that he has such a wrong motive and such a false presentation, he should be fine by the court and the case is close. Why is it still going on? Just making a statement like that is very misleading.

The rest of the content is just repeating what they claimed in the past which is nothing new except the founder's testimony about how YD is formed in China in 1999. It seems that they tried to dissociate YD in China with David Jang. I think it is worthwhile to look into this to see if David Jang is associated or the founder of YD International.

Publishing and distributing the booklet about YD is a very dangerous act since the written word will become evidence in future possible legal case. I hope the one who wrote it will be careful about this.

I am sure IEC, former advisor, 525 people will respond to this press conference's content at a later time. We can all say what we want but the public need to judge on their own.

Also, I can see that they are disconnecting YD with GH too. GH still have their problems in their integrity and honesty. For a media, this is deadly problems. They can't keep distracting others by directing our focus to other areas. They are actually accumulating more and more facts against them since they refused to ever apologize or correct for their mistakes, their attitude are both arrogant and unacceptable. Indeed, these are strong words but important and crucial.

By the way, love to see some photos of their press conference but none is available as the 525, again, this is interesting! So many interesting things!

Hin / 2008-05-29 07:45:26

Here it comes the press conference

Here is the press conference but again as I said earlier, it is only a press conference and not open to the public, meaning that only Christian media can go, how many are there, not many, it will be a very small meeting. There will be a lot of YD and GH people there for sure.

You also need to call and register before you go. It will finally become a more in-house thing and then they will release the "result" of the news conference to the public on their website and also GH's website and of course, it will be a very successful press conference and all the misunderstandings have been cleared and they are clean again!

This won't be long, by this friday night or saturday morning, it will be out and let's see if my estimation is right.

Here are the link and the content of the press conference news: (once again, it is not open to the general public but only to Christian media, meaning that Rev. Lo, Yeungs, Mrs. Teng, Rev. Wu...sorry, all of you are not welcome and can't get in). Isn't this interesting?

http://hk.ydjesus.org/newsroom/articles.php?code=globalmissions&id=464

記者招待會定於本周五舉行

By 耶穌青年會

主內平安！

針對近日坊間對耶穌青年會之眾多疑惑，本會即將召開記者招待會，由國際、國內及香港同工介紹本會，並專門招待教界內媒體前來採訪。希望藉此能讓眾教會更認識耶穌青年會，特別讓大家更了解國內耶穌青年會之真實狀況。

招待會安排
日期：2008年5月30日(五)
時間：1600-1800
地點：香港灣仔軒尼詩道十五號地下溫莎公爵
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本會歡迎您們前來參加！
如能撥冗出席，請回電郵：[email protected]或電話：2291-0201報名。謝謝！

耶穌青年會
二零零八年五月二十八日

Hin / 2008-05-28 02:29:32

It is only a press conference

YD is only going to hold a press conference, I doubted it will be to the extent that we want. They will have a written manuscript for the press and then they might answer a few questions but might not be what we want.

What they really need is an open meeting to the public. Let's see what they can offer, we have only three days to go. They are very good in writing up their side of the story or their viewpoint of what happened. I think that is the most we can get and nothing more. There won't be anything new at all.

They will deny the false doctrines that Mrs. Tang claimed that they are teaching, they will deny any brain washings, they will accuse Ma Li to be a false witness and never a member of YD, they will accuse the Yeungs brain washing the former members of YD. I think that is about it.

Nothing surprising at all!

For those who are interesting in this, you must go back to the beginning and observe what has happened. It is not just one event but many events in order to see the nature of a person or a group.

佚名Anonymous / 2008-05-28 00:46:18

核凸真相冠軍

好囉！好囉！照妖鏡現晒形囉！

近兩三個禮拜 GH人YDJ人開始嚟 CT踩場，自己又喺GH網站上講人自講，講來講去三幅屁，無法啦，被人洗咗腦嘅人講野咁款，因為根本就無思想！聽上頭指！淨係識執人口水尾，淨係識扭計問： “唔制呀！你又唔調查佢？”

各路英雄發現真相：

GH利用葛福林呃錢！

GH隱瞞牟利身份呃奉獻！

GH人個個講大話！

GH點擊率報假數！

GH未經同意利用正牌教會机構名去宣傳賣廣告！

GH隱瞞經濟來源！

GH隱瞞YDJ身份！

GH好狠毒恐嚇牧者！

GH人成日改名呃人！

GH喺人地個場倒亂！

GH同埋 YDJ 人喺張大衛手下受訓！

GH, YDJ, Crossmap、ChristianToday、Jublieemission、Breathecast、福音時代、基督時代全部係張大衛爪牙！

GH個個夫婦、香港、大陸、韓国炒埋一碟，唔係統一係乜？

GH同YDJ人身份背景個個無人知，淨喺張大衛嘅偉仁大學出身！

GH同YDJ 世界上無一個正統信仰嘅牧師、教會、機構撑佢地！

GH同YDJ 世界上無一個正統信仰嘅牧師、教會、機構奉獻比佢地！

GH咁多個月除咗轉移視線、鬼辯、告人之外，無法解釋身世、手段、錢！

GH幾個熱心又愛主又無辜又乜都唔識又無錢嘅純真年輕人，一個月內反轉豬肚就係屎，變成又狠毒又出律師信告人又有錢出報紙又極有效率又改名又講大話當食生菜又惡毒！

John Doe / 2008-05-28 00:31:38

Kit's 耶青要揭發真相！

I am confused, Kit.

What was it? 耶青要揭發真相?? Or, 要揭發耶青真相！

D Law / 2008-05-27 23:59:45

To Kit et al...

Kit said: 耶青要揭發真相！

I agree, concur with and support the above! It is time for 耶穌青年會 to speak up in public, because so far, it and GH have been so quiet - surprisingly quiet!

Yes, let the HK church hear from them. Let them invite all the pastors from all the major denominations in HK to attend their open meeting.

耶穌青年會 and GH need not be the "victims"!!

At the meeting, they can openly tell their side of the story. They can even politely dis-allow any persons whom they think are unsympathetic to their position. They should however include a time for questions from the audience.

Let them be honest, sincere, and address the key issues surrounding their identity, namely:

** their relationship with David Jang

** their belief system, PLUS Jang's belief system

** their response to charges that they control, manipulate and brain wash their adherants. (We should welcome them to produce witnesses to attest to the contrary)

** their source of finance, etc, etc...

Hin / 2008-05-27 17:43:01

To Kit: what about the number of hits of GH

What would be your response to the number of hits of GH claimed by GH themselves? Read the comments on that link and let us know your response.

Are they OK or do they act like a fox?

Hin / 2008-05-27 17:35:36

To Kit: no problem at all

The reason I mentioned GH along with YD is because they are connected in many ways and many YD are GH staff, this is clear in the IEC report. I think it is also very very obvious that GH is speaking for YD for they share many common ground and resources.

I don't have any conflicts with GH at all just like if you speak for them, doesn't mean you know them personally or they are your buddies. Please do not put motive in me nor words in my mouth.

Let's see who is the fox in the near future.

Kit / 2008-05-27 16:56:51

耶青要揭發真相！

Hello Hin,

我想你好像有點誤解了。這篇新聞稿明明就是來自耶穌青年會的，而且現在要揭露真相的並不是GH呢，而是耶穌青年會。你怎麼還在這裡提起GH呢？

你多次說你接觸過GH的顧問和GH的某些同工，是不是你個人跟GH有什麽瓜葛，就故意在這裡煽動這件事情呢？

經過上主日在北宣由新興宗派研究中心的人所舉辦的聚會，大家都已經很清楚，所謂“GH和YD等機構是異端”的事端其實是在於中國大陸的YD那裡的。現在耶穌青年會搞記者會也就是要說明這件事情背後的種種，讓我們拭目以待。

最後，我都好同意Hin所說 The fox has to come out, there is no place to hide. 究竟是誰在華人教會中間搞風搞雨呢？我們的焦點要放在這裡。

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:43:36

GH's response to 525

GH has issued a response right after the 525 meeting.

In the response, GH stated that 反而當場被指傳召假證人，被形容為「一場鬧劇. We have to note that during the meeting, it is the people from YD who accused the witness as false witness, it is also GH who think that it is 一場鬧劇. Both are from YD and GH and not from any general public. Bear in mind, this response is posted on the GH. What it means is that whether the witness is false or not, whether the meeting is a joke or not, it is not as what GH said. The opening paragraph in the response is already misleading.

在錄音證人說到「耶穌青年會有40個道的課程，目的是使聽道者見證其教主張大衛就是再來的基督」時，一名與會者激動站起來高聲說：「你找假證人作假見證！」一時氣氛變得緊張，大會主席楊子穎面色漲紅。該姊妹為香港耶青同工。

They admitted that the person who accused the witness to be false is a staff from YD in Hong Kong. She only made a statement, it doesn't prove the witness is false at all. If I yelled " You are Christ!", it doesn't make you Christ at all.

Regarding the face of brother Yeung turning red is again a skillful statement to make it sounds like brother Yeung felt embarrasse because someone pointed out the witness is a false one. First of all, turning red is a very subjective obervation; secondly, if anyone who yell at me during my talk or presentation, I might turn red but it doesn't mean what I am presenting is wrong but I am just feel surprise by the action and not the content. Again, it is misleading the reader.

此期間大會傳召一位操國語的匿名女證人。她見證約有15分鐘時，有兩人站起來用國語大聲呼喊：「Ma Li，你竟作假見證！」另一位姊妹大喊：「楊子聰洗腦，不先交流就在這裡搞這個！」，全場嘩然。

據事後訪問了解，這三位國內信徒都是中國耶青成員。他們表示認識該名見證人Ma Li，但她根本從未成為過耶穌青年會的會友，只知道她為另一家庭教會成員。中國耶穌青年會表示他們早已調查出楊子聰曾到國內給Ma Li「洗腦」，灌輸以扭曲的思想，誘使她到處抺黑耶青。中國耶穌青年會同工曾以電郵勸她回轉，惜Ma Li未有回音；香港耶穌青年會在會前多次聯繫楊子聰希望通過溝通化解他對大陸耶青的種種誤解，卻遭對方無理拒絕。

Based on the above two paragraphs, we can see that GH condemned or concluded that Yeung went to China and brain washed Ma Li and use her to spread rumors about YD. How do they know that Yeung has brain washed Ma Li? If Ma Li is not a member of YD, what good is it to brain wash her in the first place? (I am not saying that Ma Li is not a member of YD but this is what GH claimed). If I am going to hurt YD (I said "if"), shouldn't I brain wash a YD member instead of a non YD member?

GH also stated that there is an interview for those three YD members from China after the meeting. Who is doing the interviewing? Isn't it GH themselves? What kind of interview and reporting is this? GH interviewing YD....interesting indeed.

One side claimed to be a member of YD and one side claimed that she is not. I wish we have the lie detector to find out who is telling the truth. If Ma Li proved to be a member by showing certain documents or sharing some insider experience with YD, will GH accept? I don't think so, they will just go on and say that they are false documents. Then, we need to go and ask professionals to prove those documents are real. There are many ways to find out whether someone is telling truth or lie. I challenged these three YD members and Ma Li to confront with a third objective party to see who is telling the truth. But, again, just like the IEC, if the conclusion is not what GH wants, they can dissovled the case again.

至今，在教會禮堂裡戴著墨鏡下、身份不明的證人暫未提供任何資料證明自己屬耶穌青年會。主辦單位在會前處處拒絕了與耶穌青年會開放的討論，也沒有與耶青一同分辨證據真偽的公正平台，單方面發佈並阻撓耶青成員參加，很可能是擔心偽證人及證供被揭發。

I think they never consider that they need to show any documents but if they need to, I think they could and they will. GH also stated that the meeting prevent YD members to join and most likely Yeungs are afraid of their witness will be exposed to be false. Again, this is a presumption and not a valid statement. It is again misleading the reader and putting thoughts into Yeung's mind.

If they prevent YD going into the meeting, why are there members of YD present. Every person who went into the meeting need to sign and put down their church affliation. These YD members have put down false church name in order to get in. What is this? How can we trust those who lie to get in to be telling the truth? Isn't it showing that YD are good in deceiving once again.

昨天證實其董事成員均為爆發「雙氧水事件」的非正統教派錫安教會前會員。有人推測他們「餘毒未消」，誘惑和洗腦內地信徒。他們亦被發現離開錫安教會後，未有接受神學訓練，卻自行組織機構調查新宗基督教組織，其判別斷異端的基礎及手法一直備受質疑。

This is again an unfair and inaccurate statement. What does the former membership at Zion church has to do with this meeting at all? Why conclude that they are 餘毒未消. This is a very irresponsible statement. Are they brain washing others in order to invite them to join the Zion Church? Come on, make some sense!

Even if they don't have theological training, what about Rev. Wu, what about Rev. Wang, what about all the IEC members and former advisors of GH, do they just buy in what they said and go along with them? All these people are theological trained more than any of the GH or YD members. Don't use this, this is indeed very weak.

滕師母又講述與楊氏弟兄和其他牧者們研究調查耶穌青年會的經過，當中包括去年12月於中國福音大會上派發3千份印有「警惕一個新異端——耶穌青年會」一文的《真假門徒.正異福音》小冊子。該小冊子對象為國內家庭教會的信徒，充份地利用以在國內傳播「耶穌青年會是異端」的觀念。楊子聰於今年1月份就在國內散佈此小冊，誘導國內信徒離開或曲解耶青，再邀該等信徒來港作偽證，大量複製出偽人偽證。

If GH said that the Yeungs led China YD members to leave YD and then invited them to come to Hong Kong to bear witness(誘導國內信徒離開或曲解耶青，再邀該等信徒來港作偽證). Does that refer to Ma Li? If not, where are those former YD members? Why would they claimed that Ma Li is not a former YD members? If Yeungs have invited these former YD members to come to Hong Kong, why not use them instead of Ma Li if she is not a former YD member (I am saying if Ma Li is not a YD member as GH claimed). This is really contradicting and unbelievable.

「5.25聚會」後，有人質疑新興宗教關注小組動機不純，存在由未有正統神學基礎的前異端成員進入國內誘導信徒成偽證人，再讓他們來港向香港眾教牧同工作偽證的高度可能。如質疑屬實將構成嚴重的罪行，香港教會值得高度關注。

有法律人士指出，發動聚會的代表楊子聰和滕張佳音師母未有根據下，在公眾場合發表針對耶穌青年會的的誹謗性言論是非常冒險的做法，可能隨時被起訴。聚會入口顯眼處明示「不容许第三方拍攝及錄音」或许是怕被檢舉，欲逃避法律責任。此類不法行為終難逃傳媒的揭發。

Again, GH is jumping to conclusion by quoting "someone" or "there are legal people", it seems to be objective but again it is not.

耶穌青年會會後表示「5.25聚會」屬鬧劇居多，並未有其宣傳般的破壞性。該會將於在本周內舉行記者招待會，從教義、邏輯及法律等方面回應楊子聰、滕師母以及偽證人所提出種種對中國耶穌青年會的質疑，以助大家分辨是非。詳情將於稍後公佈。

I looked forward to the press conference within this week and let see what kind of strong, convincing evidences that GH and YD are going to present. This upcoming press conference won't be the end but just the beginning.

Who said that this is just a group of young people? It is definitely not "just"!

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:30:25

Forcing the fox out of the hole

The more GH go public, the better for us to see the true picture of GH.

I really and sincerely hope that GH will not back down at all, please go all the way. I have been waiting to see the report from their special investigation committee, I have been waiting for them to make more public statements.

I hope the news press will proceed as they promised, love to see their side of the story and then the public can compare and decide. This is good.

If they condemn someone to be a false witness, please bring up evidences and not statements to prove that. They can't just bring up a person or even several person to point their fingers at the witness and claimed that she is a false witness. Can we also bring out lots of people and claimed that she is not. It is not a comparison of numbers but finding the facts. Let's see how they can prove it or they are just claiming it once again as before.

I am glad that we are getting to an end soon. The fox has to come out, there is no place to hide.

資料庫 > 專輯 > 《基督日報》事件專輯

報道

耶穌青年會抗議5.25聚會
表示本週內將開記者會
（5月27日消息）

舊回應17則

Hin / 2008-06-02 19:35:58

cham / 2008-06-02 15:48:45

Hin / 2008-06-01 22:41:57

Hin / 2008-06-01 22:22:43

Hin / 2008-06-01 18:00:20

佚名Anonymous / 2008-06-01 12:00:57

Hin / 2008-06-01 03:42:59

Hin / 2008-05-29 07:45:26

Hin / 2008-05-28 02:29:32

佚名Anonymous / 2008-05-28 00:46:18

John Doe / 2008-05-28 00:31:38

D Law / 2008-05-27 23:59:45

Hin / 2008-05-27 17:43:01

Hin / 2008-05-27 17:35:36

Kit / 2008-05-27 16:56:51

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:43:36

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:30:25

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資料庫 > 專輯 > 《基督日報》事件專輯

報道

耶穌青年會抗議5.25聚會表示本週內將開記者會（5月27日消息）

舊回應17則

Hin / 2008-06-02 19:35:58

cham / 2008-06-02 15:48:45

Hin / 2008-06-01 22:41:57

Hin / 2008-06-01 22:22:43

Hin / 2008-06-01 18:00:20

佚名Anonymous / 2008-06-01 12:00:57

Hin / 2008-06-01 03:42:59

Hin / 2008-05-29 07:45:26

Hin / 2008-05-28 02:29:32

佚名Anonymous / 2008-05-28 00:46:18

John Doe / 2008-05-28 00:31:38

D Law / 2008-05-27 23:59:45

Hin / 2008-05-27 17:43:01

Hin / 2008-05-27 17:35:36

Kit / 2008-05-27 16:56:51

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:43:36

Hin / 2008-05-27 16:30:25

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耶穌青年會抗議5.25聚會
表示本週內將開記者會
（5月27日消息）