基督徒學生運動支持同志團體帶領七一遊行（6月16日消息）

Liberal / 2005-06-18 21:47:18

To kar yan ng: message edited

...non-biblical because the bible only states that God hates homosexual behaviours...

edited to this:

...non-biblical because, even from the conservative perspective, the bible only states that God hates homosexual behaviours...

The whole message becomes:

It was reported that Kempling defended the traditional Christian understanding of the social, physical, and moral evils of homosexual behaviour. If this report was accurate, his opinion was non-biblical because, even from the conservative perspective, the bible only states that God hates homosexual behaviours but did not say that homosexual behaviours have social or physical evils. Those social and physical evils are extra-biblical inventions.

冰河 / 2005-06-18 21:01:51

不好意思，上一個post是我出的

打錯字不好意思 XD

冰回 / 2005-06-18 20:55:35

回 agape :

對，來來去去也是那堆人在吵吵鬧鬧，搞得滿城風雨
尤其是始作俑者ーー最先發起教內恐同風波的明光社眾人

agape / 2005-06-18 12:43:25

來來去去都是那幾十人

吵吵鬧鬧,搞得滿城風雨.

Ken S. / 2005-06-18 11:33:03

To Kar Yan Ng

18-06-2005 00:57:43 Liberal: ".....the bible only states that God hates homosexual behaviours....." (To kar yan ng)

2004年我與Liberal的爭論 ﹕

5/4/2004, 9:26 pm Ken-Calvinist:
.....(Jesus dislikes Gay)....

17/4/2004, 1:59 am Liberal:
non-biblical
the bible only recorded:
1.paul dislikes same-sex intercourse
2.some OT authors dislikes same-sex intercoures

(http://members2.boardhost.com/kudaniel/msg/458.html)

同志基督徒●以利達 / 2005-06-18 10:18:54

獨立媒體：蔡弟兄，別講一套做一套(史偉文)

http://www.inmediahk.net/public/article?item_id=39522&group_id=82

願主保守史弟兄的教會生活。

Ken S. / 2005-06-18 02:05:48

To Kar Yan Ng

萬事互相效力﹐叫愛神的人得益處

Sir, be strong and alone in your mighty Lord. Let He be your only battle companion.

Liberal / 2005-06-18 00:59:48

愛裡沒有懼怕－－基督徒為「反性傾向歧視立法」事件的禱告

That is good.

Liberal / 2005-06-18 00:57:43

To kar yan ng

It was reported that Kempling defended the traditional Christian understanding of the social, physical, and moral evils of homosexual behaviour. If this report was accurate, his opinion was non-biblical because the bible only states that God hates homosexual behaviours but did not say that homosexual behaviours have social or physical evils. Those social and physical evils are extra-biblical inventions.

同志基督徒●以利達 / 2005-06-18 00:24:49

邀請弟兄姊妹聯署：愛裡沒有懼怕－－基督徒為「反性傾向歧視立法」事件的禱告

邀請基督徒聯署

愛裡沒有懼怕－－基督徒為「反性傾向歧視立法」事件的禱告

各位主內的弟兄姊妹：

你們好！我們是一群來自不同宗派的基督徒，對於自年初起基督徒群體就政府提出性傾向歧視立法一事所引起的連串迴響和爭議，以及當中造成信徒間的分化，我們深表關注。在今年五月，我們成立了「基督徒關注性傾向歧視立法組」，跟進有關歧視條例立法的發展；並且秉承基督教愛鄰如己的精神，繼續關心和服侍處於社會和教會邊沿的同志弟兄姊妹。

我們發起的第一次行動是邀請不同宗派的基督徒，以個人名義聯署「愛裡沒有懼怕」禱文，籍此表達我們對同志的接納和對教會的期望。

這份聯署禱文將於七月七日在都市日報刊登。歡迎大家參與聯署，共同表達基督徒的不同聲音。

聯署費用：在職人仕 $100或以上，非在職人仕 $50 (亦可按各人的經濟能力支付)。請將劃線支票（支票抬頭：香港基督教工業委員會）寄往九龍中央郵政局73643號。

請填妥另附聯署表格，並於7月4日，中午十二時之前，將填妥之表格傳真至2721-1438 或電郵至[email protected]。

如有任何查詢，請致電王小姐：6709-1571。

發起團體：「基督徒關注性傾向歧視立法組」

聯署禱文內容

愛裡沒有懼怕－－基督徒為「反性傾向歧視立法」的禱告

上主，請醫治我們！
求撫摸我們內心的痛和悲傷，因為「反性傾向歧視立法」一事的發展已引致基督徒群體間的對立和分化。上主，求你醫治教會，讓我們學習復和及寬恕之道。

上主，請啟迪我們！
求你賜給我們智慧、真誠和開放的心，能夠持平地理解「性傾向歧視條例」的性質和意義，並嘗試體會同志的處境和掙扎。上主，懇求聖靈啟迪信徒明辨仁愛和公義的真道。

上主，請祝福我們──同志和非同志！
求你賜給我們謙卑和包容的心，教導我們尊重及善待持不同意見的人，在彼此尊重與平等相待中尋求合一。更求你的公義臨在香港，讓我們能夠逐步建立適切的法例和制度，在維護宗教和言論自由的原則下，保障同志同樣享有基本人權。

上主，你所教導的最大誡命是盡心、盡性、盡力、盡意敬愛上主，又要愛鄰舍如同愛自己。 (路加福音 10:27) 今天，我們相信同志也是我們的鄰舍，需要我們去關愛。求你叫我們明白，昔日主耶穌面對被邊緣化的群體時，並沒有公開定他們的罪，反而不顧個人的安危，主動打破牢固的人為界線，逾越種族和宗教傳統的藩籬，只因祂動了慈心，甘願冒險去親近和醫治那群當時被視為不潔的邊緣人。上主，我們感謝你，因為主耶穌已為我們立下愛裡沒有懼怕的好榜樣。求你讓我們因你的大愛而能超越恐懼；又能在主復活的大能與盼望中，謙卑而無懼地發聲，與弱勢群體同行，努力祈求和促使上主的國度早日降臨。

求主垂憐，誠心所願！

獨立媒體：

http://www.inmediahk.net/public/article?item_id=39478&group_id=14

Ken S. / 2005-06-17 23:49:23

Re. Kar Yan Ng

Quite an inspiring reflection!

想用自己語言 o甘樣講﹕ 你沖破左我一直未能沖破的邏輯障礙
(it's ok that you don't understand what i mean. I'm bad in expressing myself, just want to express personal feeling subjectively and literarily)

Thanks for the links too. 你真係幫到我能更準確o甘認識美國情況﹐提供不少寶貴資料

虞瑋倩 / 2005-06-17 21:15:41

Kar Yan Ng- Don't make me tell you to shut up on HK matters. 。“明光社” 才是徹頭徹尾右派的tyranny !

你到底有沒有了解“民間人權陣線”(民陣)背景是什麼﹖有冇了解“七一遊行”係咩呢﹖

現在發起“七一遊行”既係“民陣”﹐決定遊行主題既係“民陣”﹐而遊行主題唔係關於“性傾向歧視”﹑“gay rights“ 等等﹐而係香港市民關注的“雙普選”(又問下你知唔知道係咩﹗)

“民間人權陣線”以往發動遊行﹐都以民主派政治明星帶頭﹐但佢地民陣後來決定不強調“政治明星”﹐要容許支持民主人權的不同群體都有機會在遊行時候帶頭出發。

今次“民間人權陣線”以遊行發起人身份﹐邀請婦女權益組織和同志組織在遊行時候帶頭出發﹐唔係等於高舉“同性戀” 。咁你你唔好連婦女權益組織都當係lesbian !

遊行上面﹐“民間人權陣線”係發起人﹐婦女權益組織和同志組織都係民陣在爭取“雙普選”的同盟﹐邀請佢地行有咩錯先﹖

“明光社” 係咩﹖喧賓奪主﹑霸道咁去話唔畀人地邀請團體在遊行帶頭﹐已經好冇品﹐仲歪曲埋﹐“民間人權陣線”人地遊行既主題。“明光社” 才是徹頭徹尾右派的tyranny !

You live in USA, and I seriously question whether you really know what you are talking about (regarding HK matters). Don't make me tell you to shut up on HK matters.

明光社行為﹐連保守派基督徒都睇唔過眼﹐認為根本就係侵犯人地主人家 (民陣) 邀請邊個帶頭遊行既自主權。用杯葛來威脅﹑歪曲人地遊行主題﹐簡直唔配叫“明光”。

同志基督徒●以利達 / 2005-06-17 15:59:02

發起聯簽的一代人公社亦有基督教背景

「 3. 我們認為實踐信仰的方式應是與生活連結（羅1:20），因為神是充滿萬有的，不單只在教堂四幅牆或教會群體內，我們實踐的對象則是社區及內裡的人，我們的信仰實踐是回應這個世代的事情（太11:16-17），而且是面向一群有需要的社群（路4:18-19）。在這個黑暗的世代，與神同行，靠著神所賜的，行公義，好憐憫。（彌6:8）（＜一代人＞）

4. 一代人公社滿有遠景，用心守望，希望啟動社會各階層潛在的無窮能量，讓有心人結伴同工，啟發有意思的新觀念，為香港社會發放欠缺的各類知性智性活動，服務有需要社群。

第三章宗旨

1. 連繫基督信仰人士，回應上主呼召，履行在社會作鹽作光的召命」

一代人公社的網站：

http://www.ageneration.org/

願神祝福他們~

Kar Yan Ng / 2005-06-17 15:37:39

A typo in my previous posting: Tyranny of the Left

I made a typo in my last posting. Instead of

"you may find yourself like Martin Luther, Jan Hans, or William Tyndale "

It should be:

"you may find yourself like Martin Luther, Jan Hus, or William Tyndale "

Jan Hus (1369 Husinec, Southern Bohemia – July 6, 1415 Constance) was a religious thinker and reformer. He initiated a religious movement based on the ideas of John Wyclif. His followers became known as Hussites. The Catholic Church did not condone such uprisings, and Hus was excommunicated in 1411, condemned by the Council of Constance, and burned at the stake. Hus was a precursor to the Protestant movement.

John Wyclif (132? – December 31, 1384) was an English theologian and early proponent of reform in the Roman Catholic Church during the 14th century. He made an English translation of the Bible in one complete edition and is considered a precursor of the Protestant Reformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wyclif)

Kar Yan Ng / 2005-06-17 13:30:42

Tyranny of the Left

Social/ religious "liberals" (many are libertines in reality) like to accuse social/ relgious conservatives as being 狹隘和封閉 whereas they are 互相包容與尊重 . Well, they are 互相包容與尊重 as long as you agree with them. If you disagree with them and this happens in a country where they control the social and political agenda, then you may find yourself like Martin Luther, Jan Hans, or William Tyndale standing against the Roman Catholic Church in the High Middle Ages and Reformation era. The "high priesthood" of liberalism may not be able to condemn and burn you at the stake, but they can inflict significant personal harm on your career and livelihood nevertheless, since they're the ones who set the standards to determine whether you're qualified for a vocation or not, as vividly demonstrated in the legal battle of Dr. Chris Kempling vs. the British Columbia College of Teachers’ (BCCT) (see the following links for some brief reviews and commentaries on the case)

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05061408.html,

http://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/pdf/website%20summary%20of%20Kempling%20case.pdf,

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0080.html

According to Life Site News (14th June 2005),

A ruling handed down yesterday by British Columbia’s highest court has upheld the British Columbia College of Teachers’ (BCCT) decision to temporarily suspend the teaching license of Chris Kempling for writing allegedly discriminatory letters to the editor of a local publication.

In 2001, while off duty, Mr. Kempling entered as a practicing Christian into the burgeoning political and social debate surrounding homosexuality and gay ‘marriage’. He defended the traditional Christian understanding of the social, physical, and moral evils of homosexual behaviour in a local newspaper. Kempling was subsequently cited for professional misconduct by the College of Teachers after a panel determined that his writings were discriminatory against homosexuals. He was disciplined with a temporary suspension of his license.

...

The ruling states that Kempling’s statements “undermined the core value of non-discrimination by denying homosexual students an education environment accepting of them.”

And yet, there was no evidence of students who had been harmed by anything that Mr. Kempling had written.

同志基督徒●以利達 / 2005-06-17 13:05:56

相關事件電台錄音資料(6月17日)

1. 香港電台--千禧年代

論題三 ) 七一遊行由同志帶頭起爭拗

嘉賓 : 莊耀洸 ( 民陣召集人 ) 9:10

嘉賓 : 蔡志森 ( 明光社總幹事 ) 9:15

嘉賓 : Connie( 女同盟代表 ) 9:25

http://www.rthk.org.hk/rthk/radio1/HK2000/20050610.html

2.香港人民廣播電台

a) <<拉闊政治>>

2005年6月10日。《七一遊行有爭拗》

主持/嘉賓：陳景煇(大煇)、鄭永鍇 (MICHAEL)
嘉賓：民間人權陣線-葉寶琳(BOBO) ；天主教正義和平委員會代表

http://prhk.no-ip.org/livepolitics/20050610/livepolitics20050610a.mp3

http://prhk.no-ip.org/livepolitics/20050610/livepolitics20050610b.mp3

http://prhk.no-ip.org/livepolitics/20050610/livepolitics20050610c.mp3

b.《風波裡的龍門陣》

2005年6月13日
討論話題： 2. 同志帶頭七一遊行有爭拗
主持/嘉賓：王岸然、梁錦祥、陶君行(企硬)、梁國雄(長毛)、Big Cat

http://prhk.no-ip.org/LMZ/20050613/20050613b.mp3

c.《公民搏格》

2005年6月15日
今晚話題:今年 7/1 遊行，由同志和婦女團體走在爭取民主最前線，引起爭議。團結市民的同時，如何確保尊重多元，接納差異？
主持/嘉賓:何秀蘭、陳家洛、柏齊
電話訪問:明光社-蔡志森

http://prhk.no-ip.org/ee/20050615/20050615a.mp3

http://prhk.no-ip.org/ee/20050615/20050615b.mp3

3. 七一電台：<<今晚潮濕>>--杯葛同志行頭？

16-6-2005(www.radio71.hk)

主持：邵家臻、邵國華、李偉儀

嘉賓：莊耀洸（民陣召集人）

陳景輝（聯署支持行頭發起人）

註：討論 "同志行頭事件"由15min 開始

http://archive.radio71.hk/content/wet/20050616/20050616wet_mono.mp3

虞瑋倩 / 2005-06-17 12:55:41

聖經冇話可以剝奪罪人爭取民主﹑言論自由的權利

如果 agape既說話成立﹐大陸信徒受逼迫﹐都係因為他們罪既緣故﹐係抵死。故此﹐你為佢地禱告﹑為佢地可以公開聚會禱告﹐係支持佢地既罪。

agape / 2005-06-17 12:47:10

支持犯同性戀罪的,不要再虛張聲勢了!

人人都知聖經指同性戀是罪.

除非你們能消滅一切聖經.

冰河 / 2005-06-17 11:22:48

回佚名Anonymous : 為何明光社必定要見同即反?

依你所講，明光社「必定要反對」同志的任何一項權利?
那假設有人發表一篇文章，提出同性戀者有生存權、有投票權、有言論自由等等，根據你的邏輯，明光社是否就必須發表聲明說「同志沒有生存權」了?

明光社這種盲目地見同必反的作風，已經一次又一次令基督徒蒙羞
你如今尚要替他們作出這種毫不合理的辯護?

虞瑋倩 / 2005-06-17 00:44:58

To 佚名Anonymous 你地唔好浪費時間侮辱各人既智慧啦。

現在係民陣邀請同志團體在列入「七一遊行」領頭行列﹐唔係同志團體自己爭取。

明光社反對根本無理﹐因為佢地領頭時候係唔會舉出支持同性戀橫額的。

要求普選係人人共同訴求﹐唔通同性戀者連要求普選﹑遊行既權利都冇﹖

而家明光社失言﹑衰左﹐就撒賴話係佢地陰謀﹐真係三歲細路都呃唔到﹐你地唔好浪費時間侮辱各人既智慧啦。

資料庫

昔日新聞